Show Notes
In this episode of Nuance, Case sits down with Jesús Canchola Sánchez – award-winning playwright, filmmaker, and author of Escape from Natura Meta. Together they explore themes of faith, identity, and the creative process.
Jesús shares how his creative life was shaped by a shift from a secular outlook to a vibrant faith, and how that transformation now informs every script, scene, and story he tells. Together, Case and Jesús unpack the intersection of faith and identity, the tensions and rewards of navigating relationships during personal change, and the grounding power of family.
Whether you’re a fellow artist, a seeker, or simply curious about the meeting point of spirituality and creativity, this conversation offers inspiration and a thoughtful perspective.
Episode Resources:
Escape from Natura Meta – https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DZBH6P4M/
JesúsCancholaSánchez.com
Follow on X: @NaturaMeta
Nuance is a podcast of The Collaborative where we wrestle together about living our Christian faith in the public square. Nuance invites Christians to pursue the cultural and economic renewal by living out faith through work every facet of public life, including work, political engagement, the arts, philanthropy, and more.
Each episode, Dr. Case Thorp hosts conversations with Christian thinkers and leaders at the forefront of some of today’s most pressing issues around living a public faith.
Our hope is that Nuance will equip our viewers with knowledge and wisdom to engage our co-workers, neighbors, and the public square in a way that reflects the beauty and grace of the Gospel.
Learn more about The Collaborative:
Website 👉 https://wecolabor.com
Get to know Case 👉 https://collaborativeorlando.com/team/
Episode Transcript
Case Thorp
In a world engineered for the benefit of us all, the ruling council has eradicated faith, replacing it with cold societal logic. Within this dystopia, Gabriel’s identity is a mere statistic. His future is not his own. So to meet a state mandated quota, he is scheduled to be transitioned to female. But a forgotten power stirs within him. Guided by prophetic dreams of his ancestor Beatrice, Gabriel discovers his ancestral forbidden Christian faith that sets him on a collision course with his creators. He escapes, a fugitive on a mission he barely understands plunging into the vast unknown wilds of a post-apocalyptic America. His journey for survival becomes a pilgrimage of the soul. From the Creole of Louisiana, to the Jewish tribes of the desert, to the slave driving cowboys of Texas. Gabriel is forged in a brutal cycle of love, loss and healing. The boy who fled becomes a man and the man becomes a leader. After finding his true purpose in Mexico and building a new community of believers, he becomes a wanted man with a ransom on his head. To win true freedom, he must return to the heart, Natura Meta, not as a victim, but as a warrior, ready to wage war for the right to believe. This is the story from Escape from Natura Meta, an exciting exploration of faith in the public square, one that has turned a horribly dystopian in a dark place, and it’s one that it was imagined and written by my guest today, Jesús Canchola Sánchez. Jesús, thank you for joining me.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Thank you for having me.
Case Thorp
I hope I did that summary justice to your vision.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
That was great. It was great listening to that. It was like having my story told to myself. It was great.
Case Thorp
Well, in writing that, just, this image comes together for me of like Hunger Games meets Mad Max meets Dune. Like, am I close there?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, absolutely. It’s like a classic dystopian setting. You know, of course, I read 1984 at school. I love Brave New World. I like all the classics. Yes, it’s definitely that vein.
Case Thorp
Well, I’m excited to get to know you better and to have our listeners learn more about your new work. So to you, our viewers and friends, thank you for joining us. Welcome to Nuance, where we seek to be faithful in the public square. I’m Case Thorp, and please like, subscribe, share. It helps us to get the word out there. Well, so I am pleased today to have on the show, Jesús Canchola Sánchez. He’s an award winning playwright, filmmaker, TV producer and author. And some of his work you may know from Telemundo or his appearances on NBC’s Late Night with Conan O’Brien. In fact, Jesús, I recognize you from Conan O’Brien.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Really? Wow, that was a while ago. That’s great. That was fun. That was really fun.
Case Thorp
He wrote and directed the Mexican feature film, Bittersweet Waters, performed Shakespeare, and he’s even the author of the 2021 children’s book, Pepito Has a Doll. His debut novel, Escape from Natura Meta, published this past May, and its themes are deeply connected to his own powerful story, a return to his Christian faith. And so today we’re diving into all of it. Now, Jesús, I want to tell you. So as a Christian pastor, it thrills me to no end that a large part of my Anglo audience are gonna be scrolling through. They’re gonna see your title here today and they’re gonna think, Case is interviewing Jesus? Like, wow, that’s quite a guest list.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, you know, it’s my name. It’s a very common name for many folks in Latin America, but in particular in Mexico, which is where my family’s from, it’s quite common to give honor to the Lord and use the name. It’s a cultural thing.
Case Thorp
Love it. Yeah, that’s great. Speaking of names, Escape from Natura Meta is the title of your book. You said to me just before we started, Natura Meta means what now in Latin?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Mother Nature.
Case Thorp
Mother nature. Interesting. And yet there’s the, I can imagine in your work, the mother nature element to the characters, to society, to the earth for sure, but that’s also the name of the colony, from which he has escaped, right?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
It’s the name of the tribe and I called it Mother Nature because there’s a distortion that’s happening within the tribe in terms of the leadership and we think of Mother Nature as being this welcoming kind of place, right? Mother Earth, all this. But they’re actually using it in a distorted way to define truth, to define science, to define man as the utmost being. So that’s why I thought it was a great juxtaposition between what the council, the government is actually doing versus the feelings that one gets when you hear something like Mother Nature or Natura Meta, you know.
Case Thorp
Yeah, yeah. Okay, so much good stuff to get there. But first, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you grew up, not only your journey of faith, but even, my goodness, such a talented individual in so many different areas of the arts. Tell us about your background.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, well, you know, I grew up in Chicago. My family is Mexican. I am a first generation, though I think my family has been coming to the States since my great grandfather worked in the railroad. It just happened that I was the first generation that’s full time living here. My parents met here in the Chicago area. I say here because I’m still based in Chicago right now. And I grew up here and I was very much a curious kid, which is how I started writing. And my faith, I grew up in a Catholic family and one of the most kind of powerful images that I remember in terms of first interaction with faith, I must’ve been around five years old and it was my first trip to Mexico and my mother took me. And it was in December. It was December 12th, which is the Virgin of Guadalupe Day where we honor our Holy Mother and Catholic Church. And there’s this huge pilgrimage that happens annually in Mexico City. It was the first time that I was exposed to such a public display of faith. The throngs of people, the visuals of the, not just the people themselves, but the buildings and all the different, the flowers, you and then seeing my own mother get on her knees and do the trail on her knees up through the aisles of the church was just really powerful. And as a five-year-old, you’re developing, even though I learned about God, you know, my child mind wasn’t totally captive, totally understanding, right? But that was like a first kind of just emotional and beyond just logical understanding of faith. That has really stuck with me. And I think that was like a beginning of really having a relationship with the church, with God and understanding faith in a more emotional way beyond just kind of a logical way. You know, I grew up in Chicago, as I mentioned, I went to school in Ohio for undergrad. I began writing there, started exploring playwriting. I moved to New York for grad school, and that’s where I began to really professionalize my writing and began to explore my voice. I think if you see my early work to where I’m at now, I was in a very different place. I stopped going to church at around 13. I just rebelled and stopped going. And my mother actually thought in the Catholic Church, you know, there are sacraments that you follow. And one of them is around 13, 14, usually people do like their confirmation. And I actually went to the classes on Sundays, you know, my mother would take me and I would go, but I actually didn’t go to the class that I was supposed to go to. I would hang out with my friends who were teaching the little five-year-olds, you know, just like drawing and having fun. And the whole class season I missed. But my mother thought I was going. Once she found out, which was towards the end when they told her, he can’t have his Confirmation. He never came to class. And she was like, what? And she had a very disappointed conversation with me. And I felt awful. I also stuck to my guns of like, I don’t want to go to church. You know, I don’t want to go to church. And I started to just question. I think I just started to really fall into really secular…and began to explore different ideologies, both politically, spiritually, and just started to kind of do my own thing, right? I started to have my own way of existing in the world that wasn’t what I was taught early on. So I went to grad school in New York City. I started doing plays, I started going to school. I was still a student and began to really find my voice and understand kind of my creative voice through the work that I was doing. I was fortunate enough to have some of my plays produced and got to see that. I did some production work and got to understand how things work behind the scenes for television. And then I ended up doing my own movie a few years ago that I shot in Mexico City. You mentioned Pepito Has a Doll, which was maybe three, four years ago or so that that came out. And that for me is a really transition kind of project because it really around seven years ago or so when I moved from New York City back home to Chicago to be near my family again, that started a journey for me to also seek a proactive relationship with God again after not after as a teenager 13, 14 not having a relationship with God yet exploring all these different things, you know, like yoga Buddhism. I was kind of your typical kind of privileged American kid just exploring, you know, “doing you,” I actually became like a certified yoga instructor for example, you know, I would go on like Buddhist retreats…
Case Thorp
My, you were really into this.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
I was really, and then I explored some occult stuff as well, some really like dark things just going on. And then I was also really involved politically with different social issues. And that was kind of what I became to idolize, like all those different identities, all these different kinds of things. And then as I grew older and I was no longer a student and a young professional and finding my way in the world and getting like real jobs and figuring out my creative voice as a writer, I decided that I wanted to be back home and needed to be back home. And for me, that also included returning to the church. Fortunately, throughout all my time where I was doubting, I had my family really supporting me in a really gentle way, you know, continuing to talk to me about God and continuing to talk to me about the church, especially my grandmother. She just passed away about a year ago. She was 96 when she passed away. And she in particular was a guiding light for me by continuing to pray by her example. She was the only person that I would go to church with during this whole time where I before I sought out my own relationship with God. And through her, I began to understand the relevance and importance of having a connection to your creator, you know? And I returned to the church, I began to understand, I finally did my Confirmation as a grownup.
Case Thorp
You went to class this time.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
And that also began to develop my voice in terms of what I was interested in. If you see my early projects, they’re very secular. They’re exploring very different identities, you know, sexuality, very much on a different spectrum, I would say, than something that a person of faith would want to explore. I think for me, Pepito has a doll is that beginning of kind of returning to, even though the book itself is more about like kind of just allowing children to play with different types of toys, whether it fits within the gender norm or not. That’s the basic point of that kind of children’s story. So I’m still within that realm of a very secular place. But you also begin to see me include the child praying, right? The child praying in his bed. There’s a cross above his bed. So there’s still those symbolisms that are there. And I think once I returned home to Chicago and began my own proactive relationship with the Lord and returned to the church, I really understood that I wanted to express this new relationship, my own reversion, my own return with the next story that I wanted to do. And that’s how Escape from Natura Meta came to be because I, as a writer, I thought in my brain, it’s like the ultimate test for any writer, no matter what kind of writing you do, is to write a novel, to write like a full length novel.
Case Thorp
Right, right. Well, I’m trying to write a book, nonfiction and it’s hard.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
But I think that’s the same idea, even if you’re doing nonfiction, like doing a full length book, it’s such a challenge. And I was like, I’m ready for it and I’m gonna take it on. And I just was like thinking through like, what story do I want to tell? And I didn’t, I wasn’t that interested in doing kind of like a full on autobiography. I was interested in my own reversion story and kind of paralleling that. And then I’ve always been a fan of dystopian stories. And then of course, after what we all lived during COVID, that for me really was a spark in terms of the relationship that the government has with the people. And both in a positive way and in negative ways, in terms of how easily we can be misinformed by different leaderships, how easily our churches can be shut down, and how even our own church leaders may just follow the rule of the government, and how some of our other church leaders may fight to maintain a certain level of worship that makes sense in extreme times. And I think for me, that caused me to think of a dystopian time. And then I began writing and Gabriel was born and then his ancestor, the one who whispers the truth to him as he’s still a member of this Natura Meta tribe is his great, great, great, great grandmother. So in honor of my grandmother, because she was my guide, you know, and I wanted to honor that in the story as well. And then he takes on the journey and then eventually he started talking to me and, you know, we started to go down from the, in my brain, what’s left of the world after all these great wars is like a strip of the Midwest. There’s still Louisiana, there’s still some Texas, you still have some part of Mexico. So he has this long journey to find his way back to his ancestral home where he finds what he’s looking for because he’s given a mission by his grandmother. And then of course he has to fight because he is a wanted man by his tribe because he’s considered a rebel and you know they don’t like the rebels.
Case Thorp
Now, my goodness, so much here. You talk about coming to write the children’s book. And did the story come to you or did you say, I want to write a children’s book? Like, how do you come together to do such a project?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
After writing plays and then doing a few screenplays as well, for me, it’s always been, there are two parts to it. One is like the challenge of the craft side of just wanting to explore as a writer different formats and testing myself as a writer. And the other part was the subject matter. At that time, I was still very much in the secular mind of wanting to explore different themes and thinking of like, you know, gender norms and wanting to kind of push that button, you know, just because those were areas that I was interested in at that time and had worked in in terms with different organizations, different projects, different themes that I had tested in my different in my plays and then the movies that I was a part of. But just as a writer, I just was like, I’m still a big fan of children’s stories just visually. And I think well-written children’s stories are so powerful, can be so powerful because they use such simple language that can have really powerful themes and messages, and I’m really attracted to that.
Case Thorp
Did you have to kind of retool? How do I, to me, in some ways, some people might think, writing a children’s book, that’s gotta be easy. But yet, then I think that’s the trick. It’s so incredibly more difficult or different than playwriting. How did you learn, yeah, how did you do that?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, it’s a whole different mindset. It’s a whole different mindset. And fortunately, I had a great illustrator that I partner with because children’s books are visual stories, right? That’s thing. Like the visual is equal to the word, you know, when you’re talking about children’s stories. I had a great illustrator working with me, Armando Mijares, which is great. If you check out the book, the illustrations are amazing. And then we both grew up as young boys that we had dolls that we played with, you know, and there are plenty of children that play with toys that are not considered part of their gender, traditional toys. And I just wanted to explore that. And I think that’s how it started. In the story, it’s also a relationship of a grandmother. See this is a consistent theme with me.
Case Thorp
She keeps showing up, doesn’t she?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
My grandmother consistently shows up in my work because she has always shown up in my life, you know. And she’s also a main character. The boy lives with his grandmother and he’s bullied. There’s also a message about anti-bullying and he has this new friend that helps him discover some courage and some strength for him to stand up for himself, and to speak up. And that’s the basic Genesis and theme of the children’s book. And that was just the theme that I wanted to explore. And craft wise, in terms of as a writer, I just took it on as a challenge, having written plays and screenwriting and done screenplays, wanting to be like, am I able, technically, you know, take on this format of a children’s book? And I was able to put it out. And it had a really positive reaction from a lot of different circles. And I may do another one.
Case Thorp
I was gonna say, think you’d do it again?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
But then I got wrapped up in the novel and as you know, since you’re writing a nonfiction book, it’s really time consuming.
Case Thorp
It so is. And I heard a writer the other day say, I will do anything but sit in that chair and do it. Like I will answer emails and I’ll…did somebody respond on Facebook? Like the discipline it takes. Okay. I’m so intrigued. You talk about how when you have dealt with and struggled with themes from a secular perspective, and then as you have reengaged your faith and gone deeper with the Lord, it’s brought you on a journey there. Tell me the difference in those two and how now your art might look different.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, I think my whole life has shifted and transitioned in a positive way. I think I was idolizing all these different identities that were part of me before I had a relationship with the Lord. I think they were distractions and they led me to different types of activities that were harmful to me, harmful to others, debauchery, drugs. It’s basically kind of like a version of sex, drugs, and rock and roll, right, for me. And that impacted the kind of stories I wanted to write and the kind of stories I wanted to share with an audience.
Case Thorp
You mean you wanted to reflect on stories of debauchery?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
I wanted to challenge the norms that I thought weren’t allowing for free expression. So I had an agenda with my stories of wanting to push buttons, wanting to explore while honing my craft. But the themes I was so interested in, I was so involved in all these different kind of political ideologies, identities. And you see that through the plays that I did, the movies that I worked on. And what shifted is that I was so self-involved that once I began to have a relationship with the Lord, I became less self-involved. I became a human that wanted to actively seek God and take on what he had in mind for me. It’s his will. I submit. And once I submit it to the Lord, my vision and my interest in the themes that I wanted to explore shifted. And part of that has been distancing myself from certain communities that I was a part of, friendships. But then I’m building new ones. And I think that’s a great opportunity. Even though you may lose folks in one side, then you end up gaining new folks on the other. But ultimately, beyond the communities, it’s the relationship with the Lord, I think is our most important relationship above any. And that has impacted kind of just the stories. I think the stories that I’m interested in, and Escape from Natura Meta is the beginning of that. Because I’m in the middle of that transition, living it and I’m reflecting it now in this first story which I hope now that this is the first part, I started writing the second part so I’m seeing this as at least a two part series…I’m really looking forward to that. That’s been the transition from having a very specific self-involved secular kind of mindset as a creative person, sharing very specific kinds of stories that had very specific agendas in terms of the kinds of themes that I wanted to push around sexuality, around identities, gender roles, things like that, that I was really obsessed with, then transitioning as I began to have an active relationship with the Lord and proactively participating in the church where I actually am now interested in different themes and understanding faith and understanding our relationship with each other and how we can be manipulated by information, having these different ideas of love and what does that mean for us as a people. So you see all these things reflected in my current story, my current book, and that’s where I’m at right now.
Case Thorp
So talk to me about your transition from the secular to the church, from one community to the other. How welcomed and accepted have you been felt as you’ve reengaged your faith? But also, how has that perhaps caused tension with those that you have moved away from?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, a lot of tension. I’ll begin with my family. My family has been the most supportive from no matter where I’m at. They’ve always been really a strong part of my life from birth through now and I imagine up until my death.
Case Thorp
Thank you, Lord, for good family.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Because I returned to the faith, I think they were really excited to have me return to the faith actively. And that for me just even built a stronger bond. I’ve been able to build stronger bonds with all of my family members because of that. I think part of that is just because I’ve worked on my own relationship with the Lord, I’m able to be a healthier human being and I’m able to love in a very genuine way the people that are around me. That started with my family, who are the closest people to me. Now, friendships in different communities, that has been, that’s where the tension, I earlier was talking about, you know, mentioning tension. That’s where some of the tension has really happened. And I think the more public I am about this, the more I hear from not just the inner circles, which I have had one-on-ones with and who know where I’m at, but also I’ve now beginning to get messages from people that are in the outer circles of the friendships, you know, of like so-and-so’s friend or a friend I haven’t seen since college who knows, you we knew each other, but now are reaching out because they have questions about some of the things that I’m saying. And I try to do my best to express where I’m at and be truthful about it. And sometimes that can be really triggering for people who find that offensive, who find me sharing my story in a way attacking their identity, attacking their way of thinking or the way that they live. And I hope to be able to just have constructive conversations. And that’s mostly what I’ve been able to do with the people that are close to me. Though what has happened as well has been that there’s just been a natural distancing that happens because I’ve also taken myself out of very specific settings to not be tempted to be able to live a Christian life. There are certain things that you just have to do in order to be able to follow the teachings of the church, follow God’s will, where you’re not going to do certain things. You’re not going to do, like sexual activity is just not going to be a free for all. Those kinds of things, which for me at one time it was, it was a free for all. That was the debauchery that I was talking about in terms of like, it was kind of like anything goes. And that part I’m okay with having distance with because I want to be healthier and I want to live a Christian life, I want to make sure that I’m surrounded by people who can support me and that I can support in their journey. And for me, at the core is my family. And fortunately, I’ve been able to find a church community that is really welcoming and a church community that is working on its faith itself, you know, that we work on our faiths together and with each other and that we learn from each other. And that for me has been just a wonderful home to be a part of.
Case Thorp
Yeah. Jesús, I really resonate with what you’re saying there. My senior pastor will often say, we as the church, we are a hospital for sinners coming together to help each other find the bread, the bread of life. We’re not a holy huddle, as the world sometimes may look upon us and say, but no, rather, we are broken people and we know it and we come together to allow the great healer, the great doctor of our faith to heal us. I wonder, with your main character Gabriel in Escape from Natura Meta, is there a particular scene that you think encapsulates most of what we’ve just been reflecting upon in your story?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Absolutely. I think honestly, it’s the whole journey. He begins as this really secular being that believes what he’s been taught by his tribe, though he also has the strength to question, right? And then he ultimately escapes. And I think it’s that whole journey. I would say probably his relationship with the tribe that I call the Creole in the book, which takes place in Louisiana. Yeah.
Case Thorp
Yes, I married a Louisiana girl, lived there five years. I know Creole well.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
And, it was an honor of these folks, you know, in Louisiana in the South that I was like, it’d be wonderful to just reflect that. And I think that that interaction that he begins to have, that that discovery, that beginning to becoming a man, to becoming conscious of the Lord in a very tangible way, because the Creole in the book are Christians and they are practicing, they’re practicing outside of the tribe of Natura Meta, which is kind of like the the strongest tribe that has survived, you know, the great wars that have taken place. And these folks have been able to survive and have been able to keep the faith, even though the Bible is hidden, right? All relationships to faith and the structures around it, you know, have been taken away. They, through oral tradition, they’ve been able to save their faith and they practice it. Then he sees that, Gabriel sees that. I think that for me, it sparks the rest of it. Yes, he escapes his old tribe and he questions, but he actually doesn’t really know where he’s going and what actually it means to live Christianity until he meets this tribe that is actually living it day in, day out as a community. And I think that for me is that journey that really then sets off for the rest of it. They really set him up in a way that like, right, you have now the tools, go forth, you know, go forth. And then he does.
Case Thorp
You’ve used the word escape quite a number of times. Gabriel has to escape. Did you feel, Jesús, like the secular world, the life you were living was so strong that escape was necessary, as opposed to a walk away or a transition, but escape?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Oh yeah, absolutely. I feel like it was, I did escape a mindset that was really hurting me. I did escape a mindset that was taking me through a really dark path for years. So I think that’s why I chose escape as the title, as well as just the journey that he takes from the beginning. He escapes the tribe. Gabriel has to literally physically escape. And I think for me personally, it was escaping a very specific mindset and distancing myself from those different settings that allowed me to do the things that I was doing that were causing me harm and others, you know? So yes, it’s a very conscious choice to use escape because it does feel like an actual physical escape. It is in the story. For me, it was definitely an escape that took me away from a very specific mindset that was causing me damage.
Case Thorp
Talk to the Jesús of five years ago who might be listening, who might say, the church, God, faith, come on, that’s not an escape, that’s dodgy and constricting and what would you say to him?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
I would just have a conversation with him and kind of see where he’s at and tell him to keep exploring. Because even though I was exploring all these different kinds of things, my own exploration led me back home, led me back to the church. I was definitely not a person that would respond well to someone kind of preaching at me or throwing very specific directives at me, even for my family, even for my grandmother, whom I love so dearly. Because they knew me well, they knew how to speak to me and to lead by example. That is ultimately what brought me back because I understood that my family, my grandmother in particular, their faiths, they were living, they are living their faiths. And I just began to want to emulate them because I love them so much. And then I knew there was a void in my heart. So I would say to him, keep exploring, you’re going to find truth. Keep working at it. Keep having the conversations with your grandmother. Keep praying. If you’re ready to go back to church, any church, go. If you’re not, don’t, but keep exploring because you’re going to find truth. You must want to find truth. And I think at that time I wanted to find truth. It was taking me to all these different places, many unhealthy places, yet I was on the search. And I think many of us are on the search and we have to find our home. And thank God I found mine.
Case Thorp
Okay, so this young man doesn’t have such a rich earthly family that you have been blessed to have. Can I guess, did you call your grandmother Abuela? I have a number of Latino friends and they have their Abuela. One of them I grew quite close to and I started calling her my abuela and she was fine with that. He doesn’t have such a strong earthly family. So when you’re saying calling him home, what does the gospel have to say that is so comforting and is truth?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yeah, because home isn’t just about your physical relationship with like blood family, right? And I think the church is such an important part of that home for me now. And I think you can’t do it alone. And I think that’s one of the things that I’ve learned, not just within the examples that are in scripture, but also by tradition. This is something that we have to do together. Even though I was exploring on my own, there were a lot of people who were influencing and were kind of sparking questions and sparking these ideas and reading this book and going to the service and this retreat. And I think that for me, the example of following church teaching that’s based on scripture and reading scripture, right? Having a relationship with the word itself for me has helped. I started reading the Bible maybe a year and a half, two years ago, and I’m like one of those people who’s like going through it in the order that it’s in.
Case Thorp
God bless you brother. You getting through Leviticus?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
And it’s challenging, right? And of course, you know, through going through Mass and, you know, I do get the whole kind of snippet of the seasons of the church, you know, and the different scriptures that are attached to those seasons. But I really wanted to read it from beginning to end, not just through, like, spiritually, but also as a writer, craft-wise, I’m so curious as to the different formats that the Holy Spirit took to inspire these men to speak, to share, to relate. I’m reading the book of Jeremiah right now and I’m so inspired by everything he has to say, even though he says a lot of negative things that are gonna happen to Israel.
Case Thorp
Sure, Different genres. Well, prophets weren’t warm and fuzzy people, so…
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
But it’s so powerful. I find him so powerful, like I’m so moved by his words, you know? So finding that relationship with the word itself, but then finding the community that’s going to help you live the life that the Lord wants you to live in this particular time, I think it’s necessary, you know? And I think finding that through the church is one of the ways…you know, the Catholic church has a, which I’m a part of, has a lot of apostolates that helps people that have sexual deviancies or have a background of traumas of different kinds or different ways that you can deal with it, depending on whatever your journey is. Search for the resources that are out there and people will help and you will find your communities that are going to help you continue to get closer to God.
Case Thorp
Has it been hard to embrace the scriptural expectations on sexuality and gender?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Yes, you know, having come from a very secular place and understanding of anything goes, it’s more of your body, your brain gets used, it’s an addiction. Honestly, I’ve taken it as an addiction, because I have a very particular relationship to sexuality in my history and it has definitely been challenging because the teaching of the church has been, you know, we are all called to chastity. You know, the reasoning behind sex is for the union between a husband and a wife, you know, being open to procreation, to life, to be able to give life and to have that union between husband and wife. And when you, from a very young age, were instilled by peers, by your own thinking, by society, we live in a very secular culture, not just in the United States, but I would say across the Western hemisphere, across the Western societies that you can do as you please sexually and it’s okay. It’s healthy, just use protection, use birth control. Yeah, and I took all those messages in and I lived them and I did what I wanted with my body and I used other people’s bodies and I thought it was like peachy keen. It was like all about pleasure. Then as I began to form a relationship with God, I began to understand that that void that I was feeling was because I was going to very dark places. And for me, one of my crosses has been lust, you know, and being able to fight that and understanding the teachings of the church has actually been really helpful because I’ve really understood the purpose behind sexuality and it has given me very specific structure and norms. And it has also given me a way to communicate where I’m at. You know, I’m a part of different groups where you can have really good conversations with other men who are going through the same thing that you’re going through. And that has been essential. Because it’s an ongoing process. For me, it wasn’t like, boom, all of a sudden I’m healed, and I don’t deal with lust anymore, and I’m chaste 100%. It’s something I’m working on.
Case Thorp
Well in my tradition, so I’m a Presbyterian, and I think you might be a closet Protestant now. I love my Roman Catholics, but you know you love scripture and you love fellowship and community so that we Protestants do those well, but we in the Presbyterian tradition we call that mortification mortem which is the word for death from Latin Mortification you’re constantly having to kill and you’re killing that sin that lust in and through the power of Holy Spirit And it’s, I think, foolish for sometimes folks to think that’s a one-and-done repentance. No, no, no, no, no. This is a lifelong leaning on the power of Christ. And it’s the very leaning where the newness of life and the freshness and the freedom comes. But it’s work.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Absolutely. It’s proactively working on it. And I’ve only been working on this, on the chastity aspect of this maybe about five years and really understanding it. And this is comparing it to a life of like 20 years of debauchery, of like just doing as I pleased. And it’s a transition. I mean, there are folks who can, boom, they have like a revelation and they’re in, you know? They’re working on other things that are not related to whatever it was that they were working on. For me and for many others, it’s a process that you have to work on actively. And it’s a spiritual battle. It’s a spiritual battle. I think the more, the evil one wants to tempt you and wants you to fall and wants you to go back to the ways that you, wants you to sin. You’re away from the church and your relationship with God. And it’s something that I am actively working on. And it’s something that I think I’m probably gonna work on for the rest of my life.
Case Thorp
Beautiful. Jesús, I’m just so grateful that you have channeled your talents in an artistic form here in the novel to help us realize the dystopian world in which we all do live. We may not be quite to the point that America has gotten in your novel. Does it have a particular year in which it’s set or just the future?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
There’s no particular year. I do kind of hint at hundreds of years from where we’re at right now. There’s no particular year.
Case Thorp
Okay. But you’ve helped me to frame, yeah, this world in which I live is beginning, is getting more and more dystopian. And how am I as a pastor helping people to escape, not escape to avoid the world, but to escape the temptations, the seduction, the lies in order to then go back in and be salt and light, right? You didn’t just go through your journey to go back to Chicago and not engage the world, but you’re using your art to keep saying, no, we need to be salt and light. We need to call out this dystopia. We need to teach true freedom and true escape that’s only found in Christ. Last question, how do you see your faith shaping your work, however that may be expressed in the various art mediums you’ve engaged? How do you see that into the future?
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
I see it as being fully part of my work in every aspect, no matter what kind of story I end up doing it, whether it’s like what I’m working right now, which is part two of Escape from Natura Meta, which I’m calling Escape from False Prophets. I think with just with the title, I’m still exploring things.
Case Thorp
Yeah, I think you need a really cool character named Case.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Alright, I’ll think about it.
Case Thorp
Yeah, yeah, I’ll have you on my podcast again if you could slip in one more. Yeah.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
And I’m translating my book Escape from Natura Meta into Spanish as well. I want it to be available in Latin America. And I wanted to do it myself, so it’s going to take me longer. Even though Spanish is my first language, I am educated in English. So it takes me a little longer to actually write in Spanish. So I think it’s a fully, my faith is fully part of my life, in general, total. And that includes my creative work. And I can’t imagine that the Lord will guide me away from including my faith in the work that I pursue creatively, because it’s such an important part of me. And it’s such an important part of my own journey and my own kind of artistic process to get to where I’m at now as, you know, becoming a novelist, you know, for the first time and wanting to continue to write books and continuing to share stories that inspire, entertain, and allow the reader to co-create with me these worlds that I want to be, you know, that I’m putting into the page.
Case Thorp
That is fantastic. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you being with me today.
Jesús Canchola Sánchez
Thank you so much, Case, appreciate this time that I had with you.
Case Thorp
Well, friends, let me encourage you to go to amazon.com and get your freshly printed copy of Escape from Natura Meta. You can learn more about Jesús’ wide range of talents at his website, JesúsCancholaSánchez.com You can also find him on X @NaturaMeta. Well friends, that brings us to the end of our conversation today. And it truly means the world to me that you’ve chosen to spend some time here. If this episode sparked something in you, the most meaningful thing you can do is to share it. Think of one person who might need to hear this and send it their way. That’s how we get the word out, one conversation at a time. Of course, leaving a review wherever you get your podcasts is a tremendous help. As my personal thank you for being part of our conversation, I’d like to send you a gift. It’s a 31-day Faith and Work prompt journal, something we’ve written to help you think theologically about the integration of your faith and work. You can go to wecolabor.com, wecolabor.com, that’s the site for the Collaborative. Drop in your email and I’ll be glad to send this to your mailbox completely free. While you’re there, you can find out all sorts of our other content and connect with us on social media. To stay connected throughout the week, don’t forget our Formed for Faithfulness podcast. It’s our weekly 10-minute devotional that drops every Monday, designed for the working Christian that follows the beautiful rhythm of life in the liturgical calendar. Grateful today for the support of our sponsor, the V3 Family Foundation. I’m Case Thorp. God’s blessings on you.
